Morning - ish ;)
Well, last night was a bit of a turn up, I can hear you saying?? but was it??
Lets do this backwards and see what we ended up with.
Bulgaria -Strong opener
Belarus - Strong song all round so reports say.
Georgia - Strong
Moldova - hmmmmm? Powerful
Serbia - Generally accepted favourite.
FYR Macedonia - Strong song, but perhaps helped by neighbourly voting.
Hungary - Strong Blues.
Slovenia - Old Fashioned stomper with Popra
Turkey - Uptempo faux latino
Latvia - 6 lads singing an italian aria.
So what we have here are 10 songs that are generally strong, have cross border appeal, and all of which have been noticed in the betting... and yet... people are saying that because they happen to be east of the alps, that is all of a sudden a "bad" thing. Why?
Is it not entirely possible that Western Europe voted for these songs in droves and they too saw them as the best? This possibility has not even been floted on major blogs except this one. This could be because people's knee-jerk reaction is to see what they want to see, and not what could well have happened.
Lets face it - Denmark was never in the running. It appealed to one specific set of audience, which either did not vote or thought it had already got through. DQ looked ridiculous on screen and it just fell flat in the same way that DJ Bobo looked too much like lordi, tried to do the "this has won already" routine, and europe simply went " NO!".
Guri Shanker was the same. She was far too old for that kind of song and it did look like your mum was performing it after she got drunk at uncle fred's party. That song had embarrasement written all the way through it. Edsillia had a dog of a song, written with a formula in mind that had expired long ago, but the Dutch think Europe like that sort of thing. Sadly, they don't and haven't since 1999.
The booing was definitely for a lack of Andorra as opposed to a Moldova. But from what I hear they were flat on the TV.
It is, unfortunatly for the UK media and the conspiracy theorists, a simple fact.
So Called Western Europe is still trying to win a contest that has moved on and they have yet to catch up. Eastern Europe gets it. Pan European appeal works. It's 2007, not 1985 anymore and western broadcasters should do well to remember that when they need to garner televotes and not the ones of the standby jury. Broadcasters have their annual excuse to moan, however they should look in their own back yard, before critising any percieved problem with the contest.
- Reports of the demise of this contest are GREATLY exagerated.
Thank you!!!!!!!
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 09:31 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 09:33 am (UTC)
2007-05-11 09:37 am (UTC)
But undoubtedly a lot of what you say makes sense. Please could you do some shameless self promotion on the list because I think they need to read this too.
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 09:50 am (UTC)
IN the run upto the contest everyone was saying how weak the Dutch song was, how over the top Denmark was, that Norway was just too daft for european tastes. Suddenly after the result everyone is behaving as if these songs were the creme de la creme....
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 09:52 am (UTC)
BenUKFR
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 09:53 am (UTC)
I agree that western Europe had worse songs, but ALL of them got punished for ANY flaw, while two or three from the east skated through (glad to see Denmark and Malta and Switzerland fail, though :) ).
The EBU clearly has a perceptions problem. Many countries from the west feel that the playing field has become non-level.
Can't wait until Saturday. Will countries from western Europe manage to get even one song in the top ten?
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 09:54 am (UTC)
2007-05-11 10:44 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 09:54 am (UTC)
Turkey and FYR Macedonia are complete examples of that. If they had been any other country doing those songs I really don't think they would have qualified. Turkey was a very weak song with an average performance and while FYR Macedonia was a good performance it was a song that is around 20 years out of day (which is what you are accussing Western Europe of doing).
I would disagree with your assessment of Bulgaria which I thought was terribly hit and miss. She was quite shrill the whole way through. It probably did benefit from being first. Moldova also was a bit of a surprise for me.
Of the "Western" songs Andorra did sadly come across a bit flat in places and just didn't sparkle, Switzerland was poor as we knew it would be, Denmark was really all about the gimmick and Malta was just not strong enough. The only one I am surprised about was Cyprus as I though Evridiki was faily decent on the night but I think the draw probably killed her. Netherlands was a stunning performance but the song was poor.
However I stand by my point that if any of those above songs had been sung by Turkey or FYR Macedonia we'd be seeing them on Saturday.
There is now a perception in a lot of the western public (rightly or wrongly) that there is a problem with the voting process. And sometimes perception is more important than reality. I think a lot will depend on the way the competition is split in 2009 and how voting works for those semi-finals. The ESC isn't dead by any means but it does need a health check.
Sorry for such a long post.
Jim W
GREAT POST!
(Anonymous)
2007-05-12 12:14 am (UTC)
COULD NOT AGREE MORE
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 09:54 am (UTC)
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 09:59 am (UTC)
What surprises me the most is that all those bloggers and long time fans from Helsinki who now are screaming "The ESC is over", "I'm selling my ticket" and "Where is the Western countries", they actually had ALL those countries as possible qualifiers on their semi prediction lists!
Be that as it may....
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:29 am (UTC)
Perception is all important. You only actually have to look at the recent elections in the UK. The country has never been in a better state and yet the perception is that we are going under. The facts simply have nothing to do with how people feel.
I, from the UK, voted for Serbia and Moldova. That's because I try to vote for the song, but it is a complete nonsense to suggest that all countries and voters have similar mentalities. There are countries that simply vote for neighbours and to suggest that this doesn't happen is myopia in the extreme. In short, with the Western countries play the game nicely, which may include votes for the East and the Eastern countries are not doing the same... that nicely equates to qualifications from the East.
I do, however, await a look at the full scoreboard. Phil is right, the contest has 'moved on'. That does not necessarily mean 'improved.'
g
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:20 am (UTC)
I think it's a shame about Andorra and a bit of a disgrace about Turkey because, charming though he is, he didn't hit a note.
The point however is surely the following. Since the introduction of the semis and the widening of the contest and despite eastern and western friends all voting for each other, come Saturday night, the right song has won. If we are absolutely honest about last night, and analyse the songs in a cold, totally objective, non-partisan or hysterical way, there really is only one that could possibly, possibly be to the wonning on Saturday and that's Latvia. In my humble, the reason that the semi was so open and so difficult to call was because essentially all the songs, from whichever half of our lovely continent they came from, were bloody ghastly. This is my 30 year of watching and in musical terms i've ever enjoyed any collection of songs less than last night. And i don't think it's because i'm an old fart.
So let's look forward to Saturday, when there will be some genuinely good and entertaining songs and performances. I agree that if you send rubbish you stand a better chance of getting through if you're from beyond the oder-neisse line, but in the end, it won't matter because (he says with blilnd faith) rätt låt kommer att vinna.
thanks for all your hard work, keeping the punters informed and sorry for banging on
Don't be so naive
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:21 am (UTC)
We should indeed not close our eyes and face the fact that there is no stopping this bullshit system. On top of that, I heard that it was leaked that the number 11 to 15 from yesterday are Albania, Montenegro, Croatia, Poland and Czech. Hahahaha. That would be a blast.
If Edsilia would have sung Molitva (with those lesbian nazi look girls behind her) she would not have passed through the final. She is dark and that is something that is not accepted in Eastern Europe. Most people here come from UK I think, and you have no clue how homogeneous population is over there.
Predictions for Saturday? Netherlands, Belgium and Germany will give 12 points to Turkey. And I can tell you that the aboriginals of these countries do not like this song at all. Need I say more about this hijacking that happened since the televoting got introduced?
Re: Don't be so naive
2007-05-11 10:31 am (UTC)
1- the fact that a "leaked" 11 to 15 is the basis of your post is hardly reliable.
2 - If Edsillia had sung Molditva it would have walked through because the song is strong enough in its own right.
3 - No, people from all of Europe are here.
Re: Don't be so naive
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 11:12 am (UTC)
Is there a big difference between Molitva and Impossible Dream?
I think it is definitely screwed up. We will see Sunday, how much is true of this leak. And where all the ex sowiet and ex yugo yugo and balkan nations were voting for. There is no hiding anymore then.
We always say: fuck me one, screw me, fuck me twice, screw you. I feel rather the second emotion. This is definitely not about the quality of songs or interpreters.
Re: Don't be so naive
2007-05-11 02:07 pm (UTC)
If Macedonia had sung edsillia's song then it still would have failed because, if you had been reading, the song is toss, not edsillia.
Colour has nothing to do with it.
Re: Don't be so naive
(Anonymous)
2007-05-12 01:32 am (UTC)
http://esctoday.com/news/read/8646
01. Latvia
02. Serbia
03. Bulgaria
04. Georgia
05. Belarus
06. Hungary
07. Moldova
08. Turkey
09. Slovenia
10. FYR Macedonia
Highest placed Western European Countries: Andorra (11th), Cyprus (12th), Denmark (14th).
I wouldn't bet any money on the correctness of this information either. We will just have to wait until we see the official results.
Re: Don't be so naive
(Anonymous)
2007-05-12 10:30 pm (UTC)
i can assure she will not have a hit anywhere in western europe, they will not even play it on the radio. what is the reason then for this song contest? to see who has most neighbors? or should it be the song that people wish to spend their money on? i think we finally found that this contest is dead for the founding parties. never felt this cold about it, no excitement at all. what a loss this evening was. riga was even more thrilling.
still awaiting the results of thursday. guess it give the same idea. sowiet, yugo yugo and balkanistan
Well done, OnEurope...
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:27 am (UTC)
I think the problem with Andorra was that the Nu-Punk genre, whilst popular west of the Alps, probably leaves Eastern Europe cold. They may have appealed to Western Europe but that's not enough as we know.
I changed my prediction for Moldova to qualifying once I had seen her costume! My wife didn't approve but I did. With Natalia going on last, expect another Top 10 finish tomorrow.
I can't believe people are saying that Cyprus deserved to go through! She looked old, she looked scary, she sounded shouty, and the draw counted against her. I also recall the song totally failing to impress the first time I heard it, and other dance songs in the contest competed for the vote.
In my prediction, I got 7 right. I had Hungary at 11th, I wasn't sure blues would be a genre that would be appreciated, but now I know. I had Slovenia at 13th, I thought Latvia would squeeze them out. My worst prediction was Georgia, I had previously placed them in the Top 10, but lowered my expectations after reading the blogs. I got Andorra, Israel and Switzerland wrong.
Re: Well done, OnEurope...
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:38 am (UTC)
Darren, Berkshire, UK
Thank you!
2007-05-11 10:33 am (UTC)
The songs that got through are strong, and were heavily favoured in the betting - but yet people are aghast when they get through.
I simply say " What the F**k do you want from this contest??"
Another thing
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:36 am (UTC)
Once we get further info on the semifinal voting, it would be nice to look only at the West European votes and see what the top 10 was. My guess is that the list is pretty similar to what we have now.
Re: Another thing
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:38 am (UTC)
Darren
Re: Another thing
2007-05-11 10:38 am (UTC)
Again, untill Sunday morning when the results are out - all this is pure speculation.
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:41 am (UTC)
But it is also a fact that three pieces of crap ... Latvia, Turkey and FYR Macedonia ... made it!
It is also a fact that Bulgaria and Moldova destroyed a good song with their awful performance, and they made it through.
On the other hand, Iceland was ignored once again, despite sending a very beautiful and well-performed song. Andorra was ignored too despite being fresh and different. Malta gave a spectacular slick performance but was ignored too. Though I never liked the Dutch entry before, I have to say that seeing it live made me like it too, and I must say Edsilia is one hell of a good performer with one hell of a strong voice.
It is not fair to accuse Western Europeans to be racist with the East, when what actually is happening is the other way round! At this point, if I were a Western European country I would not bother participating anymore. Really, why bother?
I have to disagree with this post
2007-05-11 10:43 am (UTC)
Re: I have to disagree with this post
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:58 am (UTC)
Israel suffered terribly from the poor direction and camerawork. It made their effort seem totally pointless and irrelevant.
Re: I have to disagree with this post
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 02:19 pm (UTC)
I was a fan of the Bulgarian song, but it hurt my ears listening to it yesterday. Seems the east can get away with murder.
And if Iceland was pretentious twaddle, Andorra was flat (unlike its landscape) and Malta was busy, then what is the badly performed Turkish song with the cringeworthy 'SHAKE IT!' blinking in the background? Awful!
You cannot deny the fact that the East needs less effort to do well. There's always that little help from their friends to get them through!
As for the Netherlands, everyone I spoke to thinks it's a travesty the song didn't make it.
Re: I have to disagree with this post
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 03:11 pm (UTC)
And by the way the Andorrans didn't look that flat on my TV. Maybe the were just missing som sword-fighting dancers or a top hat?
Re: I have to disagree with this post
2007-05-11 03:14 pm (UTC)
And Iceland would have been MUCH better in a language OnEurope doesn't understand - cos the Icelandic version sounds a lot better!
If you have the opportunity - try and see a re-run of the contest like I did this afternoon where SVT Europe showed the songs again - it has certainly helped me ;)
Re: I have to disagree with this post
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 03:37 pm (UTC)
Re: I have to disagree with this post
2007-05-11 03:41 pm (UTC)
We can do this for all eternity as the argument we would be having will be circular - especially since the reason for being here is on Saturday!
Enjoy it - I know I will ;)
Disagree
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 10:50 am (UTC)
- People generally don't like old rockers singing old rock songs, and there were three (Iceland, Croatia, Czech Rep.) to choose from. Hardly surprising these all missed out.
- Moldova's performance was excellent! And part of her appeal was her outfit. The recaps showed her singing the powerful final note which was flawless.
- Andorra was ignored, I believe, because Nu-Punk as a genre just hasn't made it to Eastern Europe.
- Malta: Well Olivia Lewis was not only wearing a horrid dress, but she was completely out of tune on all the long notes. It made my wife and I grimace!
- Netherlands, I believe, were in the bottom 3. Ask yourself which countries, if any, would have placed this old fashioned, unremarkable song in their Top 10?
Darren, Berkshire, UK
Re: Disagree
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 03:39 pm (UTC)
agree
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 11:20 am (UTC)
I am afraid that oneurope is trying to fool himself. I just watch the facts.
you could have swopped the songs of eg holland and macedonia and leave the singers. still macedonia would pass and holland not. so it is not about the song, it is not about the singer, it is about the country for the majority of the countries that are allowed to vote.
and about discrimination, you will see from western countries that points are given spread out over europe and in balkanistan it is a less colored scoreboard. what a boring and predictable show this has become. i am sure that not even abba would have passed with waterloo this year.
Re: agree
2007-05-11 11:24 am (UTC)
Lets just wait for a scoreboard and then see shall we? ;)
Yes, but......
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 11:05 am (UTC)
Oh, and Andorra on my British telly were a major disappointment vocally. Much of the singing was either out of tune or breathless. A real shame because the boys had obviously delivered in rehearsals but couldn't nail it on the night.
Re: Yes, but......
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 11:15 am (UTC)
Am i watching something else or isn't it just plain obvious that this year has always been a three horse race between the Ukraine, Russia and Latvia?
none of the other songs, much as i like many of them, have sufficient oomph to get everyone across the continent behind them. it's that simple, i think.
You are so right...!
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 11:50 am (UTC)
Nikos, Greece, currently in Helsinki
Well said, Phil.
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 12:27 pm (UTC)
BRAVO
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 12:43 pm (UTC)
Couldn't agree with you more ...
Simply - it is shown that "Western" countries are somehow stucked in the 90s and still didn't find the right FORMULA, while Eastern countires found the FORMULA ...
The saddest thing in point of ESC is that Russia this year is SELLING THE UK PRODUCT, and there's NO WAY of complaining about that .. the logic is simple - if UK doesn't wabnt to use their advantage in point of BIGGEST names, trendsetting, music industry, globalisation etc etc -> Russia will use it and form new Sugababes ...
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 12:45 pm (UTC)
I'm really sorry for Malta and for Andorra (but they were as flat live as they are on the CD - it's just the way he sings).
So, absolutely no complaints from me. Ten good, varied songs through. A great TV show, with superb lighting and backdrop, plus - and this was the real bonus - a great sound balance on TV. It was perfect. The only thing missing was the Te Deum, which the BBC cut off from the beginning and the end, so a little of the Eurovision atmosphere was missing for us.
Chig
chig.blogspot.com
2007-05-11 08:26 pm (UTC)
I gotta disagree with you there; I think Andorra is better on the CD than they were live. It was painful to hear the good song sound so bad. And, as upset as I am that they didn't qualify, they shouldn't have with that performance.
Hold it
(Anonymous)
2007-05-11 02:56 pm (UTC)
The problem is not who gets into top 5, I'm sure the best songs always will. The problem is who gets the rest of the tickets. When you go to place 6 and downwards, there are often very small margins between the scores, maybe just 2 or 3 points. And this is the crucial point, because this is where the cultural (NOT political) voting makes a difference.
Half the contestants are from the Eastside of Europe. Try analyze their voting and you will find that they often tend to spend most of their points from 1 to 12 on other East side countries. The West side might also vote for a few of their neighbors, but the rest of the points could go anywhere.
This could easily make the difference between coming 10th and 11th, being in or out. Same goes for the final, competing for direct qualification next year.
There are no reason to blame Eastern Europe for this, but it does have a bad impact on the show, and increases the "Woganism" of Western Europe - which in my opinion is the biggest danger to ESC. I would definitely prefer a more varied final, leaving room for Andorra-punk, Belgium-funk or a fine Icelandic rock-ballad - which definitely deserved better no matter how the singer looks. Instead we are having 17 Eastside entries and if it wasn't for the Big4 rule, probably a few more.
By the way: I will vote for Hungary, Serbia and Russia along with Germany and maybe Sweden. So I am not eating sour grapes, these are IMO the best songs, and I don't care which country they come from. But I don't think I can bear watching another phony folk-scenery from FYROM or Georgia, watching a vulgar opera singer dressed up like Dracuella or listen to a Bulgarian manically drum-beating lady experimenting with her voice. Next time please do that alone in the bathroom before the show.
Demise of the contest
(Anonymous)
2007-05-12 07:54 am (UTC)
Re: Demise of the contest
2007-05-12 10:59 am (UTC)